Talk:Central Military Commission (China)

China High‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: National / Asian / Chinese

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	National militaries task force
	Asian military history task force
	Chinese military history task force

Politics Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Socialism

	Socialism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Archive 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by when more than 5 sections are present.

Older

Why was it moved from Central_Military_Commission? This article discusses both the party and state CMCs. The title suggests it is only about the state one. Do other countries have prominent CMC's? --Jiang 22:46 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

The article says the top leadership of the state CMC and the party CMC are the same, and Jiang Zemin passed the leaderships of both CMCs to Hu Jingtao in September 2004. Nonetheless, as far as I remember Jiang passed the leadership of the ~~party~~ state CMC slightly later than the ~~state~~ party CMC to Hu. — Instantno od 20:42, Feb 14 2005 (UTC)

I have found that Jiang is still the leader of the state CMC. It is expected the position will be passed to Hu on March 13, 2005, the last day of the meetings of the People's Consultative Conference and the National People's Congress. — Insta ntnood 07:10 Feb 26 2005 (UTC)

~~Jiang Zemin submitted the resignation today (March 4) and is pending to the approval by the National People's Congress. — Insta ntnood~~ 13:05 Mar 4 2005 (UTC)

Remove Vietnam

Remove sentence that Vietnam has a CMC structure. According to the Vietnam People's Army article, it doesn't. Roadrunner (talk) 07:15, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~It does. --TIAYN (talk)~~ 07:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tiananmen

Remove this sentence pending a correction:

Three members of the Politburo Standing Committee voted for martial law while two, General Secretary Zhao Ziyang and President Yang Shangkun, voted against it

Yang Shangkun was not a member of the PSC at the time of Tiananmen.

Any discussion on page move?

The page was recently moved from Central Military Commission (People's Republic of China) to Central Military Commission (Communist Party of China). Was this move discussed? Given that the CMC answers to two masters (state and party), and PRC does not necessarily imply a state-based entity, the previous title seems more appropriate. Am I missing something? Homunculus (duihua) 16:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A leader's party position is his "real" position. His state position may correspond to his party position, or it may be just an empty title. But the article title is not the place to attempt an explanation of such party-state complexities. A disambiguator is to allow the reader to easily distinguish among Wiki articles with similar titles. So the title of this article should be something like Central Military Commission (China). CMC answers to two masters? More like, the CMC picks the party boss. As for the state, it is never an independent actor in Chinese politics. Kauffner (talk) 07:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the article should be at "Central Military Commission (China)", instead. Technically the two CMCs (military and state) are separate, but they are one in the same. Colipon+(Talk) 12:32, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I assume you mean "Central Military Commission (People's Republic of China)"? Homunculus (duihua) 18:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, because there is no ambiguity. We only use PRC when there is ambiguity. Colipon+(Talk) 20:33, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't the KMT had a central military commission, or something with a very similar name? That may introduce ambiguity.Homunculus (duihua) 20:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're talking about the "National Military Council". Sometimes it is rendered "CMC", but in most contexts there is no ambiguity whatsoever. Reminds me of the Vancouver, BC and Vancouver, Washington debate. Colipon+(Talk) 20:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A "(People's Republic of China)" disambiguator would imply that the article is about the state CMC. But the party CMC is the one that counts. It is also a really ugly four-word disambiguator. As a general principle, you don't make the disambiguator longer for no good reason. Kauffner (talk) 01:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, though we should probably add a note at the top of the page clarifying that it refers to the PRC organization, and directing readers looking for the KMT military council to the appropriate page. Homunculus (duihua) 02:38, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relationship with Politburo

This isn't true

Under the constitution of the Chinese Communist Party, the CMC is subordinate to the Politburo.

see http://www.china.org.cn/english/congress/229722.htm

Roadrunner (talk) 09:35, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]